Transcript for Writing Your Resilience Podcast Episode 57

Embracing the Full Catastrophe: Writing about Loss and Finding Belonging with Casey Mulligan Walsh

Have you ever been told what you’re writing is too dark, too sad, or that it needs more levity? Have you wondered how a story of tragedy can grow into something more than the sum of its parts?

 Let me tell you about my client, Casey Mulligan Walsh. In 2021, I completed a manuscript evaluation for her where we explored what was truly at the heart of her book and how to ensure the big-picture concepts she wanted to discuss weren’t buried by the challenges she faced.
 
 Between then and now, she has worked tirelessly on her manuscript, written pieces for The New York Times, HuffPost, Modern Loss, and more, and lasered in on how to elevate the truly catastrophic losses into a memoir speaks about so much more. This week, I’m delighted to speak with her as she launches her debut memoir, The Full Catastrophe: All I Ever Wanted, Everything I Feared.

Join us as we discuss her revision process, what it took to embrace both the heartbreaking and beautiful aspects of life, and how she’s become a small press author whose book debuted at number two in Amazon’s Grief and Loss category, just behind Mary Frances O’Connor. Grab your pen, open your heart, and get ready to learn about how revision can change you and where literary citizenship can take you on this week’s episode of the Writing Your Resilience podcast. Let’s Dive in!

Lisa Cooper Ellison [0:00]
Well, hello, Casey, I am just overjoyed to have you on the podcast today, because we get to talk about The Full Catastrophe, your memoir that is coming out now, which I am so excited about, because I've been a part of your journey. 

Casey Mulligan Walsh [0:15]
You have absolutely have been a part of my journey, Lisa, a big part of my journey. And I'm just thrilled to be on your show. I just so admire your podcast. I listen to every episode, and I honestly learn something every single time. So, I'm so grateful for you having me here. Thank you.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [0:33]
Well, we are going to dive deeply into your memoir, but before we do, I want to give you an opportunity to give us the first description of your book. So, what would you like us to know about The Full Catastrophe, and about you as a writer?

Casey Mulligan Walsh [0:48]
Wow. Well, The Full Catastrophe is my story of the search for belonging after repeated loss, and navigating uncertainty, and learning to live with grief beside joy. I was orphaned at 12, and my only sibling died when I was 20, and that set me off on a search for home that really rose above every other goal I had in life. I did create that family I dreamed of. But when my marriage began to fall apart, I embraced a new spirituality that became a lifeline during a hostile divorce. But then the unthinkable happened—the death of my 20-year-old son, Eric. And that loss, of course, was devastating, but the spiritual strength that I cultivated during the divorce really helped me navigate my grief and find a deeper sense of belonging. Through it all, I learned that life rarely goes according to plan, and that even in the most heartbreaking moments, there's room for healing, peace, and unexpected joy. And it, for me—then this goes back to the title—it's about embracing the full catastrophe of life in all its messy and beautiful complexity.

And the other thing I'd like to say is, one of the things I hoped to accomplish with this book was to illustrate how losses, especially losses that happen before we reach adulthood, really can dictate the decisions we make for the rest of our lives and alter the way that we see the world. And similarly, I think choosing to see the world through a different lens—in my case, it was spirituality—can affect the way that we think, the choices we make, and ultimately, who we become. 

Lisa Cooper Ellison [2:35]
This is a book that contains so much loss, you know, for someone who hasn't gone through these things, and I have my own relationship to loss, this could have been such a relentless story of just darkness and doom and gloom, and that's not what this is. And that's one of the things that I have really enjoyed about this book: is that you're able to walk that fine line by really taking us into this world, allowing us to see through this narrator's eyes, to experience all these things and then realize how, just as you said, all of those early losses created this foundational need and desire that fueled all the rest of her decisions throughout this book.

Casey Mulligan Walsh [3:29]
100% true.

And I think many of us who write know that when we begin to write, those threads are not always gelled for us. I didn't start out thinking about my life, or even early on writing about my life, with this whole trajectory and all these lessons firmly in place, right? We learn a lot as we're writing. That was definitely true for me.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [3:55]
Yeah. And so, you started writing this in 2011. You and I worked together in 2021, and then you went off and did more work. Let's see, it's going to be 2025, so if I'm doing the math right, we're talking 14 years to write this book. What did you learn about yourself and about the story through writing and revising it?

Casey Mulligan Walsh [4:16]
Yes, you know, 2011 is when I started writing essays. I was working with Marion Roach Smith, who's local to me, and her group was very pivotal for me. And then a group of us kind of broke off and met every two weeks for seven years. So, every two weeks for seven years, I had an essay, because I wasn't showing up without something to get feedback on. In 2017, I kind of had this one pivotal moment where I decided that I was going to just rough out what chapters might look like, and maybe this should be a story. There are many collections of essays that are beautiful, and that's exactly what they should be. At first, I thought, I can just do this collection of essays, but I think this story really needed to be a story with a narrative arc and not an essay collection. And so that's when I started working on it as a book.

In 2019, I worked with Allison K. Williams in Tuscany at her first retreat. So that was pivotal for me, because right after that is when everything exploded in a lot of our online writing groups, and Writers Bridge and all those things. So that was really important. And then in 2020, a group of us started an online writing group, and we're very close, and we're still together, and we all had full-length manuscripts, so we've been through each other's full books twice. And in the middle of that time is when I worked with you. I felt as if I thought I had the whole story there. I thought I was close, but I just wasn't that sure that the beginning was riveting enough. You know, you can't tell an agent or publisher that it gets really good in the middle. You've got to grab them from the beginning.

And that full read that you did was amazing—not just comments, but little craft lessons throughout, really, I think, made the book what it is today. But back to your question, what happened at the same time that you were reading my manuscript, as the result of just doing some other webinar, is I had this huge aha moment that the book, while it was a story of relentless loss and, you know, multiple losses and resilience, it was really a story about the search for belonging. And that had just never gelled for me after all those years, right, until that moment.

So, 10 years into writing, I suddenly realized the thread that ties it all together is the search for belonging or the search for home. It didn't change huge scenes. You might read the book and think it isn't that different, but it did change the context within which everything happened and how I steered each scene. And ultimately, you asked, how it changed the book, but ultimately, it changed me and my thinking about the life that I lived. I used to say, when I was a young married person, that, you know, that I got a two-year degree. I didn't go on and do all the things educationally I should have or wanted to do, because I needed a family more than I needed an education. So, I knew that early on, but I don't think I quite grasped how deeply it directed every single decision I made.

And then that's kind of on a global level. On a more granular level, many of these things you'll recognize, because there are things you brought to my attention when you read the manuscript. I needed more scene, less exposition. And to me, that goes hand in hand with the—you know, we like to talk about the South Park Model, with everything being connected by but and therefore.

And the funny thing is, when I was a speech-language pathologist, and I did a lot of work with literacy, with kids, I was—my big focus—and I used to teach ways to improve writing and comprehension from kindergarten to 12th grade, you can use the same strategies. And one of them is, if you can take a couple of words and connect those thoughts with but, because, or so, then you can not only write well, but you can show you can display a clear understanding of the content. And so, for me, it's the but, because, or, so is what sticks in my head.

So, you know, Allison K. Williams had a great blog post about this that I looked at recently. But, you know, just that every scene either arises from the previous one or leads to the next, and that was really, really helpful. And in my case, I didn't change anything that really happened. But, for example, there's a sequence of really pivotal events that happened when I was living with relatives after my parents died, and I just kind of manipulated those to have happened all within like a two-day sequence. And it doesn't really change anything, but it made it much more compelling to read. So those are the kinds of things that were helpful.

But also, I think that the time between the events that took place in the book and when I actually started writing was long enough, I wasn't writing in the middle of the trauma and the pain, and I think that was really helpful. Let's say that was 10 years. I still needed the next 10 years of writing to fully digest things with my former husband and his mother, who had been like a mother to me, that I could begin to see that. And this goes along with the kind of my spiritual beliefs too, right, that we're all here trying to get what we need or working through our fears.

There was a lot about me that brought up a lot of fear for both of them. I also think that I married someone who wasn't right for me and then tried to make him into someone he couldn't be. And so, you know, there's enough—I don't even like to use the word blame, but there's enough erroneous thinking and fear to go around, right, in any situation.

One last thing I'd like to say is that one of the most difficult things to write was the spiritual evolution, because it's very difficult, I think, to write something like that without sounding like you're proselytizing or preaching or using spiritual bypass, like I just, you know, had all these airy philosophical feelings, so I didn't have to feel anything. And so, I worked really hard. Glennon Doyle's Love Warrior was one book that was very helpful to me in seeing how she wrote about her change in spirituality and in thinking in the middle of the struggle. That's what I tried to emulate. There's a passage where, like, I'm lying in bed and I don't know how any of this is going to work out, and it just seems so hopeless. Yet, I have this peace. And, like, there were times early on where I kind of felt like, Am I—is it really okay for me to believe this? Or, you know, this is just kind of a little shift? It wasn't an antithesis to what I always believed, but it was a shift. And so, I tried to show those things within the struggle, not like, oh, and then one day, I just decided to believe this, and everything worked well, because that's just not believable.

And I did show the pain and the sadness and all those things, because otherwise you're just bypassing your real feelings. And yes, you don't want that.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [11:53]
And I think readers will call BS on it, because it's not really how it works. And I really felt like you walked that line really well between saying, "This is what I rely on, this is what's helping me cope and get through this awful experience," and, "I still have feelings about this awful experience. I don't always behave in ways that I would have liked to have behaved in these awful experiences." 

I want to summarize some of the things you just said. One is that you needed time away from the situation before you could really write honestly about it. And then it took time and a lot of drafts to be able to digest, process, and understand that. It's not just enough to process and understand if you're trying to write a publishable book, you have to really understand your angle. And I could see how you had really framed things toward the angle of belonging at every single scene. Like when we met back in 2021, you had rendered your scenes really well. You immersed me in the place. I felt like I was there. You rendered your characters. You did all that work. But it was like a situation is happening, and yet, what are the stakes? What's the motivation of this character? Why is this character behaving this way? Why do they tolerate such and such? And that's where that framing comes in really nicely, and it's clear. It gives your book something additional, right? It elevates a story of grief and allows it to be about something else, which contributes to the conversation around grief. That it's not just that we grieve, or we hurt, or we've lost people. We lose people within a context, and it shapes the context through which we see our entire lives. 

Casey Mulligan Walsh [13:45]
That’s so well said, and it's so gratifying to me to know that you got that when you read it. That's just wonderful. I've really struggled with kind of my elevator pitch or describing my book to people, because sometimes I get through the first line and they're just like crying, and then I'd be like, "No, wait!" So, then I had to kind of... I've learned to move the more hopeful stuff up to the top, and because, you know, we all love to talk about Vivian Gornick and The Situation and the Story, and, you know, the situation is pretty grim in a lot of this book. Yeah, but the story doesn't have to be.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [14:24]
Exactly, and you bring that light in. And when I think about, like, what is the essential question of this book? To me, the essential question of the book is, how do you embrace the full catastrophe of life, the thing you want, when that full catastrophe can be pretty catastrophic? Like, how do you hold space for both? And I see you wrestling through that, or I see the narrator wrestling through that. That's probably a better way to talk about it. So, writers, if you're hearing me say that, let me tell you why we want to make sure that we have distance from that character on the page. Even though this is Casey's story, and she's talking about her life, the person who lives through those things, that character is not her. It's not the person who's in front of me right now.

Casey Mulligan Walsh [15:07]
Right? That's very true. I'm jumping around a little bit, but I think that good critique partners, trusted critique partners, are so important. You really need to trust your inner voice, but that comes after. I mean, I love that. If you've seen that meme where there's a pizza and it's a whole pizza, and it's got like a whole chicken on one half, like the whole bird, and then the other half has chocolate sprinkles and M&Ms, and there's some olives thrown on there, and the caption is, "Thanks for your comments on my draft, I've made all the edits.” If you listen to everyone, that's what you're going to have, the pizza with the chicken and M&Ms. 

But it's hard, I think, when you're a new writer and you first get critique, and you can feel, you know, super misunderstood or defensive, or maybe they just don't like me. I mean, there's so much that comes up in the very beginning, and then I think you have to learn to listen with discernment, right? So, you don't need to address every comment. It's not like you're defending yourself, right? But being open to the fact that maybe the people you're working with know this one thing about craft that I haven't learned yet, right? Or maybe they have something, you know, something to teach me. 

And so, a little shift off that is helpful. I mean, we all like to say in our writing group, we've all cried at one point or the other, right? And there are those times where you're just, they just don't understand what I lived through. You know? They don't get this. And there is that old adage that's so important that you critique the writing, not the life, and that's really important. But there have been times when I, because I trust these people, that I've pushed through that to either—if you don't get it, I have to write it more clearly. We know that—but maybe I don't even get it as much as I thought I did. Maybe there's something in that situation that I'm looking at from my one perspective, and I don't have to agree with them, and it has to ring true for me, but maybe I should just sit with it a little bit, and sometimes it's just more a matter of... I'd write a line that seemed self-explanatory, and someone would say, "That doesn't make any sense to me. What do you mean? Why does it matter?" 

One example I can think of is at some point I said something about understanding that we operate either out of love or fear, and sometimes people are acting out of fear, and somebody else, who doesn't maybe think just like me, said, "Well, what does that matter?" And I just said, "Well, it doesn't change what happened, but it changes me." That's the line that needed to be in the book that wasn't there. And so, you know, I just think it's time away from the event, then it's the time of writing. But I do think trusted critique partners, I don't think any of our books—we all feel like would not be what they are if we hadn't had this group.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [18:14]
Yeah, trusted critique partners are so important, and yet, you pointed out something that's important. I'd like to unpack it a little further with you, if we can. And that is the idea that when you are working with a critique group, number one, it needs to be a trusted critique group, meaning to me—and feel free to jump in on this—that you feel like they can offer you the type of feedback you need, like they have the skills and they have the compassion and openness to inhabit and understand your story. 

Casey Mulligan Walsh [18:44]
And that the critique is positive. And I don't mean positive like, "Oh yeah, yeah, right," but that it's productive critique that's designed to be helpful to you, not to be demoralizing. You know, even in the best critique groups, you can walk away demoralized. I mean, no group is perfect all the time. Then you have to interrogate yourself: What is it about that that makes me feel that way? Is that just the emotional connection I have to the event, or is it the emotional connection I have to thinking I wrote it well? And, you know, you really have to sit with that sometimes. I also think that trust with critique partners is built over time. I think when you have people that have demonstrated ongoing commitment, then all the stakes change for the better. 

Lisa Cooper Ellison [19:36]
Absolutely. Some of the best critique groups I've been in have been around for a long time, and they've also included people who have, frankly, pissed me off. And I found that the things that upset me have actually been for my highest good, right? So, it's not that bad. But, you know, the worst kind of feedback to me is feedback like, "Well, it doesn't work for me as a reader." Like, okay. Okay, and what do I do with that?

Casey Mulligan Walsh [20:03]
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. But I think the end result of all of that is that, because what I can fall prey to is wanting to get too many opinions. And I have another very trusted writing, editing friend who will say, like, "Stop now. It's time to go with your gut. Like, go with what works for you." And so, I do think that the big global one-liner is trust your inner voice, but that's not trust your inner voice before you learn a lot and listen to a lot. I mean, you have to get that skill, and you also have to ask yourself, is the person who's critiquing your work—do you like their writing? You know? I mean, do you trust this person, and do you respect their writing? But then in the end, even if you do, it's still your writing that's coming from your heart and your mind, and you have to make that final choice.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [20:59]
Absolutely. So, what you're saying is you need to be open, you also need to learn, and you need to be discerning. And so having that, what I call creative intuition, that divining rod inside you that allows you to say, "Yes, this feedback is something I really need to attend to," or "No, this feedback isn't something that's going to work for my story," or, "Hey, even though everybody's telling me this thing doesn't work, something inside me is saying it has to be there. How can I trust that it's got to be there? It's just that I have to figure out how to make it clear." So, what have you done in your writing life to foster that creative intuition and to be able to trust it?

Casey Mulligan Walsh [21:48]
Interesting. I don't know if I could pinpoint exactly what I've done, but I do know that sometimes you can give your work to an editor specifically to have huge swaths cut, like I know this is too long, this has to go. And some of the time, I've tried it even though I thought the big section, for example, that didn't need to belong there, made a lot of sense to me for it to belong there. Yeah, I've always, I think, tried to try it without, because sometimes just something happens, you know, when you see the rest of the work that's juxtaposed now because of that thing that's gone, or someone suggests you move this section up here. I had one time where I don't know, I moved something to the beginning. I think it was the second chapter, and it was just a whole different scene than it was buried in a chapter. So, I think sometimes it's just try it. You know, I've had people say, "Well, maybe this whole... the whole spiritual part of this is a little too far afield. Like, maybe just make it about how you learned that you weren't in control of everything." And that, for me, I thought about it for a second, but for me, that could be a really good book, but that's not the book I was writing. It wouldn't have been a genuine representation of my story. So, I think you try it, but if there's just something internally that tells you if you're on the right track or not, and sometimes it's hard to know, but when you know something doesn't feel right, then don't do it. 

Lisa Cooper Ellison [23:19]
Because if you do something—even if somebody's like the super smart editor person who knows all the stuff—if it's not right for your story, and you do it, it's never going to feel like your story. So, you must trust that inner knowing and know what it feels like. For me, my inner knowing feels like a warmth or a tightness in my chest. I'll feel that as like a yes or a no. Where do you feel it in your body?

Casey Mulligan Walsh [23:51]
Oh, that's interesting. I think if it's a no, it's kind of a, my stomach has always been my Achilles' heel. It's kind of, I can have something like that happen, and instantly my stomach hurts, you know? So, there are those things. I feel like, if it's the times that people have suggested something or on my own, I've moved something or changed it or whatever, I think there's almost a lightness, you know? There's a little kind of feeling of giddiness, almost, that, "Oh, this is sizzling for me right now." Yeah, I think that I would say that. 

I want to say that one of the things you had talked about, because, and this goes back to how it takes a while to get perspective, maybe a long, long while. One of the things you had said is, you know, the reader really needs to feel like you've got something of what you wanted before you lose it. I mean, that's good story structure anyway, right? There has to be this false victory, and then, you know... so because of how difficult everything was with the divorce and then my son's death, and it was, let's face it, like way before the divorce, there were just a lot of challenges in our marriage. But because it ended so tragically, all of it, it was really a long time before I could connect with the good stuff. I could write you 100 essays about the challenges. You know, those are the essays that sell the trauma and all of that. In fact, in the beginning, I was writing a lot about Eric. Toward the end, and way back, I was really struggling. I was thinking, "I don't even remember that much of his childhood," which you'll laugh when you read the book now, but I was struggling to reconnect with all, you know, the really great times. So, I specifically, and I'm sure you saw this when you read the book, but after that advice, I wrote that Christmas scene, which is, like, one of my favorite scenes of the whole book. And that really is how it was, you know, for us on Christmas. And so, you know, I think it also gives a nod to the fact that there have been difficult times behind us, and there's plenty more to come, but for today, everything is perfect, and that's kind of how life is, right? We have those glowing days, but they don't always stay that way. And, you know, we all behave maybe for something special like that, but I'm so grateful that that theme is in the book. I don't think it would have been the same story without it.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [26:23]
I'm glad that you put it in there as well. It's one of my favorites. And you just said something that's important, because I work with a lot of writers who are working on tough stories. I know a lot of people who want to write about traumatic childhoods or some other kind of experience that's really big and heavy and dark, and they all get the same feedback, which I've gotten myself, which is, "Where's the levity? Where's the lightness?" 

And if you are connecting with that pain, your brain is in a neural network. It's in a rut that is related to that pain. So, it makes it physically difficult to remember the good times. But what you said is so important, because so many people are like, "Yeah, but my experience was dark. My experience was this." And for today, sometimes people behave in ways that are light and wonderful, and it all works out. And to allow that, it can be just for today—like, that can even be your mantra. I don't have to find the special moment that makes this person look so great, but you can say, "What is the just-for-today moment?" right? That gives us all a breath.

Casey Mulligan Walsh [27:29]
I feel that way about that whole funny series of voicemails from my son, Kyle. Like, he would tell you that it's the best part of the book. But, you know, I could have done all kinds of things to try to describe how funny he could be. And, you know, that series of voicemails that I came home to that night when I forgot to pick him up did such a better job illustrating that than any, you know, little made-up scene or exposition I could have come up with. Those were the days of tapes and answering machines, and I had saved that tape, and years ago I transcribed that. So that's like, really word for word from.... So, it's good when those things present themselves, because it's hard to manufacture levity when it's not genuine.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [28:21]
And we don't want to make things disingenuous, right? We want to be true to what our experience is but figure out what is the richer version of the truth. And so, you did a lot of work to make that happen in your book, and you went on a long writing and revising journey, and now you're on the other side of that journey, which is the publishing journey. And we're recording this about, gosh, about six weeks now. Is that correct?

Casey Mulligan Walsh [28:47]
Yes, just about six weeks. Yes, so six weeks.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [28:51]
Before the release, and you are in that gauntlet in the lead-up to your book launch. And this is a book from a small press that is mighty, right? It's a great press, Motina Press. I love them, and they put out wonderful work. And, you know, one of the obstacles many small press authors have is that if you're not the darling of a big-five press, there's not the money there, right? So, you have to put in the lion's share of the work. And you have some impressive stats, my friend. You have, I think, around 260 people who are on your launch team, which is so great. And already, again, we are six weeks out, you have 105 reviews on Goodreads. That is amazing. So, what have you done to build this kind of author platform that is allowing you to do all these things and spread the word so well in advance of your book?

Casey Mulligan Walsh [29:50]
Well, I have to say, first, I have the most amazing launch team. I have people who have just gone over and above to connect me with people to set up events. Just—they've been amazing. I would say a couple things. First, it is about literary citizenship, and it's about genuine, not transactional, support for people. But it's equally about in-real-life connections, right? So, I have said this before, and I haven't done it, but I think one of the things I should do is kind of go through my launch team list and get a feel for the percentage of people who are literary community friends and people who are just in real-life friends throughout my life. I don't know if it's about a 50/50 mix, but I think in general, it's all about building and nurturing relationships, whether it's in real life or online, and again, genuine, not transactional relationships. 

I'd say, if I just bulleted it out, it would be: start early, stay organized, save everything, and be sincere and express gratitude—genuine gratitude, right? So, I would say, about four years before I signed with Motina, I started really developing connections within the literary community. And again, I think it all started when I worked with Allison K. Williams in Tuscany. And that was when, right after we came back, Writers Bridge started. Some of your listeners may know about some of the Binder’s Groups, and so I got very active in some of those. But then it's also going out of your way to go to an author's launch party or a reading or, you know, HippoCamp, which we all love and miss so much. I went to Writers in Paradise in Florida, like, to the extent that you can be in community with other writers. And then I feel like any of those things I've ever done, there's always a handful of people you keep, you know, the people who you really hit it off with. And those tentacles go far and wide, especially if you're the kind of person who maintains those connections. 

Yes, but I have people in my launch team that I went to high school with. I have people that I'm on the board of the Family Heart Foundation. I have a lot of support from them, you know, people I worked with or went to school with in my speech-language pathology career. I can't even tell you just all, you know, I just basically asked just about everyone I could think of. But that leads to how you ask, right? First, I am a big saver, so I saved lots of launch team letters from other people and took pieces that felt genuine for me. I personalized every one of those 260 letters, because there's nothing worse than just getting what's clearly a stock email. Obviously, a lot of it had to be stock—you know, "this is what it means; this is what I'd ask you to do." But it only takes a minute to write a genuine little paragraph about how much you enjoyed working at this thing with this person or whatever, and a lot of very clear, "If this is not the right time for you, if this isn't going to work for you, absolutely fine," you know. And because you don't want anybody to feel pressured. If they feel pressured, they'll say yes, and they won't do everything you ask them to do anyway. 

And I'm a big—not necessarily that organized at home, but I'm very organized in my writing life, so I have all kinds of spreadsheets. And this is a little ancillary to building the team, but I think it relates in that generosity always comes back to you. And so, like, I have this elaborate small press spreadsheet or where to submit essays. I do not see any reason why I wouldn't share that with anybody who's interested. Like, why not, you know? And so, you developed some goodwill that way. A few of the pieces I've published have really struck a chord, especially in the grief community. And so, when people have written me or just made comments in some of these groups, I've kept a list of people that would be potentially interested in the book. Because, you know, sometimes you'll hear, "Oh my God, this piece moved me, and I'd love to read your book." Well, you know, so you just say, "I was so moved by your comment, and I'm just checking to see if you'd be interested." And then I think that just all goes hand in hand with all the things we know about literary citizenship, about supporting other writers and contributing to the literary community and, you know, being generous. Also, I'm in the In a Flash group, and we just started a Substack-based literary magazine. Yes, and that's, like, exciting because we get to pick one person each with each set of submissions that gets the whole spotlight, and it feels so good to be able to do that for maybe a new writer, maybe an experienced writer. We don't know, because we read blind, so we don't know who we've chosen. Our first issue just came out, and it's called In a Flow.  The piece we chose, was just beautiful. And so, it does feel really good, genuinely good, to support other writers.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [35:08]
Yeah, putting out that energy, starting early, staying organized, and being a good human—that’s what I always say. Be a good human. Don’t be transactional, and don’t expect a tit for tat, right? You might help all these people, and they may not be the people who help you, but someone else will. And you cast a wide net; you didn’t just think of, “Oh, these are the writers that I know.” Yes, these are the writers I know, and these are the people from the Family Heart Association. These are my friends from college and the people that I worked with as a speech language pathologist. These are the people that I know in all these other environments. And it’s important to cast that wide net. 

One thing I will also say as a shout out to you is you offer reminders, because people need them, and you make your ask clear and easy to execute on. I think that’s also helpful. So, you have done an amazing job. I am so excited to see where this takes you. You’ve also offered so generously all this writing advice that you have for everyone. So, I have two last questions for you. And one question is, we’re in 2025, you are in the gauntlet, as I have already said, how are you caring for and really nourishing your resilience as you prepare for your book launch in a year of change?

Casey Mulligan Walsh [36:31]
Well, I would have had a very different answer for you a few weeks ago, but I had a health scare the week before Christmas, and I was hospitalized. Everything is fabulous, but I’m deeply exhausted from this. And so, probably most of my friends would say that it’s good that it happened, because I’m not good at resting, and so it’s kind of enforced, and it’s been good. And, you know, sometimes it’s a difficult question, right? Like, what do we do to nurture ourselves? I think I could talk about, you know, hot baths and all that kind of thing, but this is kind of full circle to what we just talked about. I think that for me, my relationships are what nurture me and keep me focused and sane. So having this wonderful community of in-person friends but also writing friends—actually three close writing friends who have just been through this—they’ve been very, very helpful in just having those connections. I still have to work on biting it off all at once. I still feel like I have a million things to do, and if you ask me what they are, I have to take a minute. I just have that big cloud of, “I have a million things to do,” but I think knocking them off one by one and just reminding myself that I just do what I can do today brings me back. As much as I may... I will say that when I had this scare in December, one of the biggest things was, yes, it’s Christmas, but thank God it’s not February. Because if I had put all this work into—we have wonderful launch events happening the week of the book launch, and I have several friends coming in from out of town, and it’s just going to be so exciting—and that would be more of a disappointment than missing Christmas, yeah, to miss that. So, I’m grateful for those. I think that’s the nurturing too. Self-nurturing is the relationships that I have with people and the gratitude I have for them.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [38:33]
Yeah, relationships, gratitude. And it sounds like your willingness to receive their care and their help as you allow yourself to rest. And I am so glad you’re okay. Gosh, you know, when I read about that, I was like, how scary.

Casey Mulligan Walsh [38:49]
It was scary, but it was perfect. I mean, it’s one of those things—without going into detail—it’s one of those things that you could look at either way, right? “Oh, my goodness, this thing happened to me,” but in retrospect, and even in the moment, I think I was so grateful. Yes, I missed a fun weekend in New York, but I was at the best hospital, and I got the best care. And I didn’t have one second of second-guessing, because I knew I was in the place that I should be. And then the results of everything really... I’m in better shape than I was before it happened, so I don’t have anything to feel bad about. Back to nurturing. That doesn’t mean, like, a week after it happened. Just the other day, all of a sudden, I did have that like, “Holy crap. This is what just happened to me.” So, you have to kind of let that flow through you, too. Yeah, you know, it may not happen in the beginning, but there comes a day where you’re like, “Whoa,” and then that flows through, and then you can move on.

Lisa Cooper Ellison [39:46]
Letting those emotions flow through is so important. Well, if people would like to connect with you, they want to see what you’re up to, they want to learn about those events that are going to be happening for your book, and most importantly, they want to buy a copy of your book, what are the best ways for people to connect with you?

Casey Mulligan Walsh [40:03]
Well, I think that probably my website. It’s CaseyMulliganWalsh.com. That’s basically a clearing house. I’m on all the social media platforms, including LinkedIn, but all of the links would be there. And in all those platforms, I’m either @CaseyMulliganWalsh or @CMulliganWalsh, so I’m not very hard to find. I have a Substack, Embracing the Full Catastrophe, and you can get to that through my web page as well. And book orders: the book is available wherever books are sold. There is a page on my website that will have links to all those things. I have a small hometown bookstore in Cambridge, New York, where the book is set. That is the bookstore that, if you order from, you’ll get a signed copy. Nice. And yeah, I guess the short answer to that is pretty much everything anybody would need to know is on my website. 

Lisa Cooper Ellison [40:57]
And in case people are wondering, “Oh my gosh. She said that so fast,” everything will be in the show notes. So, fear not. It will all be there so that you can connect with Casey. And I just want to end by saying, congratulations on publishing The Full Catastrophe. Oh my gosh. I am so happy for you, and you have put in all the work. I can’t wait to see what rewards you reap in this year and the years to come.

Casey Mulligan Walsh [41:24]
Thank you so much, Lisa. It’s just been delightful to be here with you.